This is the Simply Home Podcast - Ladies Who Build, a podcast for women by women.

This is Ashley Wainscott and Michelle Mullins.

After spending the last 10 years revolutionizing the construction industry and raising the bar of the contracting world.

We are inviting you on our journey as we continuously learn how to be extraordinary and thrive in this industry.

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Welcome to episode 20 of Ladies Who Build. The episode around persistence and negotiation tactics. Some of the key points we'll be talking about today is persistence and negotiation and using this for your success. How do you use it in your day to day and how it's applicable to vendor and clients? So we have a special guest with us today.

Her name is Kristine Cantwell and she is a project manager on the Simply Home team. And Kristine comes with a wealth of knowledge and we were eager to get her on the podcast to talk specifically about persistence and negotiation, but there's a whole lot to her. And we're so excited to share Kristine with the world. So Kristine, welcome.

Hi.

Yeah.

I’m so excited you're here.

I'm so excited to be here.

So, so happy. Also for everyone who is listening on audio, Kristine has a really cute outfit on.

Always.

Always so cute.

Yeah.

She's looking her best. But Christine, tell us your background. Tell us a little bit about you, how you ended up here and what you're doing now. And we'll take it from there.

Okay. So I have been in construction for about 10 years. My dad was a GC, so it's always been like a second nature to me and something I was comfortable being around. When I was about 24, 25, I got my first job in construction. And that was in sales as the designer for remodels. And didn't know much when I started.

And then I quickly learned a CAD software. And so that's really where I kind of found my niche. And then throughout my career, I've just been mostly designing and doing sales. What intrigued me about project management is because the part of sales I like the most was kind of organizing all the numbers and coming up with the beds and doing the drawings. So a lot of organizing. And it was fun.

Yeah. I remember when we first interviewed you, you know, I always say this but the role for project manager, especially in this company is not like any other. For us, it's not enough to just simply have construction experience. There's so much more that you have to have. And so it's, the interview process can be long because there's, it takes a lot to kind of meet those requirements.

But I remember when we first spoke, you kind of checked all the boxes of the experience that you had. But I think that your management of emotional intelligence was very clear to me on our first couple of calls because you have an understanding of who you are. And I think that that's so important when you're client facing.

So the experience that you've had has been tremendous in getting you to this point, because as you know, all of those skills are so incredibly needed when you're working with so many different types of clients. So I think that this topic actually fits really well for you because you, you do that really well with these.

Thank you.

So.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I feel like everyone uses negotiation to some extent in their lives. I've been doing it, especially on the homeowner side a lot. And I feel like the best tool for potentially any career, but definitely if you are persuading or trying to have that more of that type of role is having empathy for the client. Being able to relate to them. If your intentions are good, clients can sense that and it just overall makes it a better experience when the client feels cared for.

That is interesting. How you having a background in design and different elements of construction, you know, you watching your dad do it, but then also being in sales for a while and how you use it in sales, but then also how it's extremely applicable in project management. Because even though you might not necessarily be selling something officially, you're still selling a vision. You're selling an idea to the client of like, let's get through the next step. This is the next solution. I mean, you're in a way negotiating and being persistent and persuading to get them through this. Like when you come across our hurdle or something,

Yeah. And every client needs something different. I feel like it's definitely based off of what personality types the client has. For some people they really, really need you to kind of persuade them along and push them along and let them know, you know, the pros and the cons and just kind of help give them a little nudge. And then other clients are very quick to make decisions if they're presented with facts.

Okay, so talk about a little bit within your role, the importance of persistence, but what it looks like specifically. So I think sometimes the word persistence could maybe seem like threatening or maybe nudgy, or maybe controlling, but explain a little bit about what it means in your role with clients.

So persistence, it can be, there's a lot of different ways that you can be persistent. When I'm facing a client, obviously persistent in my professional life where I like to get things done, I like to check the boxes off. And that is kind of what helps me be persistent with clients in the way that we gotta get this done, if you want to get your project hammered out and just kind of making sure that they know that we do need a decision, giving them a clear deadline for that decision. And giving them the facts of the pros and cons of what their decision will mean in the end.

Yeah, so. I understand that. Yes. And I think what was what's most important is to be able to be that kind of pillar, like that strong pillar for the client, because you've grown through this experience multiple times with clients and with projects, but this is their first time going through it. And especially it's their first time going through us.

And so you have to be this kind of guiding post of, this is how we do things. This is how we're going to do things. And because this is the outcome we're going to have. So I think, especially, and you do this really well, but especially being that like calm but firm presence for them is huge. But also kind of, that is part of the persistence of it. You know, it’s to say, hey, in order for us to get to this outcome, this is what has to take place right now.

Well, exactly. And when you put it with, to a client in that way, and you say like, I understand it's difficult to make decisions. It really is. I do lean on empathy a lot. Because clients are stressed out and very empathetic to your we're tearing your house apart, especially before we start putting the finishing touches on it. Leaning in on to, it's normal, I'm on your side.

And just reiterating that and also reiterating all the reasons that they chose Simply Home in the first place. We are organized. We've got many clients who have had, you know, wonderful experiences. And there was nothing to say that this won't be the same. And then you kind of snap into the logical part of their brain, where they can rationale with their emotional side.

That is very. I mean, visionary is the word that's coming to mind. But it is a very.

Thanks.

It's a very, I don't know, insightful way to look at it, which I've never had that viewpoint before. So I'm learning a lot today. But it is. I mean, it is true. I've always looked at it in a similar, in a similar light. I just, maybe not that way, but I have always thought of it. And it's like, you know, needing the confidence peace because when you're radiating your, the confidence of like, we will get through this, we will be okay and being empathetic like I understand that you're going through a lot and I understand this is hard and you're paying me to tear apart your house and to rebuild it.

Yeah.

And it seems counter-intuitive. Like we should be paying them or something. But yes, it's, it is something all about your aura. And I think you hit the nail on the head with Kristine’s aura, because it is all about your aura and how you approach it.

Thank you.

Yeah. I'm lacking internally, because back in the day, I didn't hide the opposite aura. So it was very hectic and crazy. But you, you bring a completely opposite perspective to the client with that. So yeah. It's what makes you great.

Yeah, well, some of the training I've had, especially in sales, was about the psychology of sales, I guess you could say. But really of, kind of shifting like how people's minds work when they're faced with a decision and it does tend to be emotional.

And then when facts hit you, especially you know, this is more sales, but numbers are, you know, the money that's going to take to make your dreams come true. You're really high and excited emotionally about the potential of the project and getting everything redone. But then when the money tends to come, then you snap into your logical forms.

So you kind of got to retrain them on what did you say was important. That's not going to be inexpensive because you are looking for top tier quality, top tier production, everything to go smoothly. So that does come with an additional price tag most of the time.

That it does. It is not cheap.

Yeah.

So talk to us about the training. Like I know that we were talking about this separately in a different conversation, but that you've had different trainings around specifically negotiation, right?

At home, negotiation.

In-home negotiation.

Yes. So the training I went through, I worked for a company where you met the client that day. And you sold the project that day. There was no other, so I mean, you have three or four hours to convince somebody to spend 25, 35,000 grand on your company to do their project.

And in that, you do learn how to sort of combat any oppositions upfront, any bad experiences upfront and it's things I still use in project management now when I do PM meetings and I'm just meeting the client and do an overview of, have you had some bad experiences, tell me about those.

Sometimes people just want connection. And so they want to be able to talk to you about certain things. So if you kind of open it up with the right questions, you almost thought them even realizing it, you kind of put forward that I do care about you. I do care about the previous experiences that you've been through. And so in that sales training that I did, it kind of helped me become more empathetic on which sides of your brain work at different times. What personality types might need you to mimic them. Which ones need, you know, facts. And yeah. So that was the training.

Do you have a good example of what that was, what that looked like successfully when you went in, in the morning and then was able to close it for the afternoon?

Well, I'm not to brag, but I have this top five from the company.

Okay.

So I did pretty well.

Not to brag but I will share this.

Yeah but I really do think I genuinely, and it's a personality thing. Not all people are built this way. I do think everybody in the world can stand to try to be understanding. I was very understanding and empathetic with my clients. I really do care about people when I meet them. When you're in their home, especially, each for could care less. Typically people are very happy or they're, they're very kind to you. And even the ones that are a little defensive because they've met, you know, maybe some not great salespeople in the past. Once you do start to let them know, like, hey, I genuinely care. And at the time the company I was working for, they, they did a great job, Texa is not really known for the best contractors. So, and the reason I ended up leaving that company was because I felt personally like they stopped putting the clients first and became a little more about, you know, hard sales tactics.

And I never want to pressure someone in their home. So I would say that's part of the training that they did have that I just, I personally felt uncomfortable with it, but people can tell when you really, truly do care about them, there's a genuine, you know, character to that and that people can feel. And so I do think that was why I was so successful.

Yeah.

And what is that like being in their home for three to four hours?

It was great. We made a new friend. I mean.

Really? Three to four, I feel like I'd be so exhausted, you know?

They’d give me milk and cookies.

How do you stand that?

I don't know. Yeah. People would make like food. I mean, they're just, you know, when you're in somebody's home for that long, you naturally almost get along with them, You know, you're walking through their home, you're like, who's that in that picture? Oh that's my great grandfather. He was in world war II. And then it's like, when you start having something to talk about, and then it does really build some sort of connection.

Did they know you'd be there for three to four hours?

No, I think the company is to tell them I would be there for an hour and a half. And then I just was like, girl, are you still here?

Meetings up and eating dinner and going to bed and we all have sleep masks on and Kristine’s still waiting.

I waited in the client’s house until 11 pm.

Oh my. Hopefully you closed them.

I did.

Okay. Good, good.

Oh, okay.

2 bedrooms. Yeah.

Yeah, well, that makes a little.

5 hours.

Wow.

I got there at six. I was there until 11 pm.

No.

I ordered them a take out. I did.

Did you eat it with them?

Yeah, of course. We're friends now.

Oh, my gosh. That's so funny.

You shared a meal together?

Do you still talk to them? These people?

Some of my clients still call me.

Oh my gosh. Wow. I’m shocked.

You really did build some close connections.

Yeah.

All about building connections. The world can use more of that.

Well, yes. A hundred percent. Okay. So let's say, so you started earlier, you kind of have to be naturally good at this, or you have to be really comfortable with this and not everybody is, which is right. And that's fine. But what would be some good advice for people that are looking to do this whether it be in sales, whether it be in their personal life, whether it be in their own role, what do you think is like a universal skill that someone could hone in on around this?

I would say, mirroring. Whenever I come into contact with a client, who's more soft-spoken I do tend to match that. And become a little more soft-spoken myself. It's not fake or pretentious. It's more so to make them comfortable because people are going to be more comfortable with, you know, an aura or just a, you know, if they're soft-spoken they would like you to be soft-spoken. Vice versa on the other flip of the coin is those who are more fact driven.

A lot of men, you know, sometimes I've gone to the house and I meet with a man of that house and you know, he'd be, well, my senior and I just come in, you know, five foot one, talking about their bathroom remodel and all the construction that's going into it. And they typically, I feel like, most men are fact driven, so they want the facts. What are you going to do? What's the waterproofing? And then, yeah, you're just kind of mirror what their value system.

In that though, with what you're saying is being so present and being aware of not just your energy of what you're putting off, but also the clients. And I think that that is such a good piece of advice from hearing, because we talk about it at Simply Home too, is even with your own sales, whether you're on project management, that is huge to know how the client's behaving and then you two can meet them at that level. But being aware you have to be present in order to even do that. I mean, if you're thinking about your next project, where you're sitting with this client, you're not going to be able to mirror them.

Absolutely.

You don't know. You don't even understand how to do that yet. You know, so yeah, that's huge being present with them.

Yeah, definitely, being genuine, really caring about them. Like I said, if you really care about them, that will come off because he'll be fully attentive. If they're telling you something. They've been unhappy in the past, you do have to almost stop and be like, oh my gosh, that really would be awful. And let them know, like, I hear you. I'm empathetic with that.

You know, I actually was just at a training that you reminded me of a few weeks ago and they were talking about being empathetic and really caring about people, which I also similarly always had that approach. If you just stop and hear people, we've always said, people just want to be heard and seen.

Yeah.

And it doesn't take much time to just acknowledge someone. The specific example that they had used in this training was, I've said this before, but you know, when you say, I can't imagine. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, I can't imagine being in that place, I can't imagine losing that person or whatever, but that actually prevents you from connecting with them when you say, I can't imagine. And notice you just said, I can imagine that was really difficult, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah.

And so she, she used this example and I was blown away because I'm like I have said, I can't imagine so many times. But in actuality, it blew my mind that I was preventing connection by not even thinking about how, how to imagine how they're feeling like, I can imagine that is that has to be really hard for you. And like, what is that like? And, so that was just a really neat example.

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

Yeah, that's interesting. You say that because even just talking about it right now, it's almost like this closed door versus this open door. So it's a possibility, even though you might not have gone through the same thing, but it's a possibility of relating versus maybe like, I literally don't even know what you're feeling because I can't even imagine. And that's okay and you don't. We all know that you haven't gone through the same thing. But. Yeah. It even just you saying that opens up a different understanding.

And with remodeling, we can imagine that.

We actually do know what you’re feeling.

One hundred percent.

I have seen it happen a lot.

You’re not alone.

I’ve been in the same situation.

Well, I'm talking to a client about something and I'm like, yeah, I don't know what that means.

I have no idea.

Yes.

That sounds rough.

Yeah and that's psychology. It really, every person has, you know, there's different psychological facts that are inherently true with most adults, most people in the world. And it really is that most of them want to feel connected and understood.

Would you say that this tactic or understanding could be applicable in other roles too? So we talk about sales. We talk about project management, which is very client facing. How do you see it working in other roles?

Even materials coordinator, I mean, construction manager, they materials coordinator is, you know, dealing with clients as well as other people in the industry who they're ordering from and trying to get answers from. So if you know, you call up the cabinet vendor and he's having a really rough day, he's having a rough week, rough month. What whatnot. You can, like talk to my vendors and be like, are you really busy right now? You know, what's going on? What other projects are you on so that I can get an understanding and then say, okay, well let's be solution focused.

Let's find a way on when, you know, maybe when you finished with that part, then we can go move forward with this part. But you almost give advice or solutions to them and they do feel heard with that. And then construction manager, I mean, Guy every day is speaking to vendors. He's definitely, I've seen him, obviously talked to them a lot. He's always very empathetic, very caring. He cares about what's going on in their lives. So I really think in any profession, you can always use those tactics or tools to kind of, just be a better project manager. I mean, whatever your role is.

And that, and it almost the relationship with the other person on the other side.

Even coworkers, I mean, if, if you're dealing, if you have a partner that you deal with, And they are, you know, maybe they're having a rough time sometimes if you talk to them about it and kind of get okay, I understand. And then you can bring up work into it, but they feel cared for typically they will be like, get on the ball a little bit.

Yeah. What do you see and maybe you've already answered this, but what do you see clients needing most out of your relationship with them?

To stay organized, keep their calendars updated so that they can see when they're realistically going to be able to be back in this space. Especially if they're living outside of the home. Simply Home is quite different from other construction companies because we do take advantage of tools like Buildertrend. Where we're able to communicate every day with a client, whether they're, you know, hundreds of miles away, overseas on vacation, or if they're just right down the street in the Airbnb, we can have like pictures and let them know the day's progress. What did go on, what didn't go on. And so that's, that's quite unique with Simply Home. And I feel like clients really, really admire that we do that.

Yeah, they enjoy the benefits.

Communication.

Yeah.

I would say.

Yeah, that's true. And it's funny too when a client notices that you haven't updated, like, if you haven't gotten to it yet, it's still at the end of the day, you're like, okay, I'll get to it. You know, by the end of the day, they'll notice something isn't updated yet. And you're like, whoa, you really are watching this to a tee.

Yeah.

Which is good. And I'm glad that they're utilizing that tool, but it's funny that they're like, hey, when is this going to, you know.

Yeah.

And you know I was just thinking about how clients use persistence and negotiation tactics.

Oh, every day. They have their agenda. They would like, well, yeah. They're crafty.

Yeah.

They're crafty.

It really comes from all angles, even vendors.

Yeah.

Everyone uses it.

I'll do this for you by Monday, if I'm able, like, will you give me another day if I do this? You know, like there, there's always a level of negotiation.

Oh yeah. Absolutely.

I kind of enjoy, a granted, I mean, maybe to your point earlier, you kind of have to be built for that conversation and built for those specific instances. But I didn't mind when clients would ask for things or maybe say, could we do this instead of this? Because it got me thinking creatively. And so I might think, okay, well, the budget allows for this. Could the budget be applied to what you're asking for in this regard? You know, let's talk about that. What does that look like? Or I'll say we can meet you at this point, but this would be additional. It's right. I don't know. I just thought it was fun to kind of say like, yeah, maybe that is possible. Let's talk about it.

Yeah.

But I think you have to be really careful because you also, as a project manager, you want to please, of course. And you want them to be satisfied with the relationship that you're in with them. But that doesn't mean saying yes to everything that they want or ask for.

Absolutely.

Because then, then it's no longer a mutual relationship. It's more now saying, I'm taking control of this and you're going to do what I ask for this cost where you know, that doesn't, that's not healthy. So I think there's a fine line, but I always let the banter up. Like, yes, this is possible. And this is possible for this cost.

Yes.

Yeah. A lot of clients, they definitely don't like being told now. So growing that muscle, I would say is definitely something you need in project management. If you're going to, you know, were interested in that field, you definitely do need to know how to have those hard conversations, but again, if you have a connection with a client, then that know is a lot easier to have that conversation with them and let them know that they don't feel like you're not on their side or that you're not trying to help, especially if you go with, to them with solutions. But no, it's definitely one of the harder conversations to have with clients.

Michelle and I addressed it up, you know, so it's yes. And that is $1,200.

That's perfect.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

Yes, I would love to do that for you. And it's $1,200.

And it'll take two more weeks.

And we're like, ready.

Yeah.

You know, and it might not be what they looked like, but I remember our business coach said that Jewish. She was like, well, you don't have to say no. And I'm like, well, how else do I say yes?

Yeah. And I usually don't say no.

Right. Of course.

And those houses I've taken and, you know, with persuasion and things like that, you're actually not supposed to use negative language too much.

Yes.

So instead of saying like, I, I don't see that. And you say, where is that? Just you know, a simple little tweaks of language.

That is actually something interesting. Cause I noticed this on one of our sales calls the other day, instead of saying, I'm trying to think of the exact example. It's like you're switching it to be positive. So like, we couldn't do that because that would cause this, this and this, it would be like, here's what we can do.

Yes.

But yes, I noticed it and I, I wish I could think of the exact example the other day, but it was something like that, that we were reflecting on with one of our teammates after the client call. And I was like, oh, instead of saying the negative version saying the positive version of like, instead of we can't do this, we can, but we can't do this.

Exactly. And then I usually do try to give my clients reasons of why what they're asking for maybe can’t be done. Because I do feel like, especially since I am in such a client facing role, it is nice for the clients to understand. Cause I've had a couple of clients where they might say they understand, but you can tell they don't completely get it. And so when you explain it to them, light will pop on and they just feel reassured. I'm not just telling them, knowing, brushing them off.

Yeah, I think when you are kind of looking at the bird's eye view, someone listening might just say, no, I'm just going to tell them straight out like it is. Like, no, I can't do that. Or no, that's not possible. But sure you could take that tactic. No one's saying not to say that or communicate that way. But we're also coming from we're speaking from the mission and vision of Simply Home specifically, because the whole idea that Simply Home was created was to give women, especially if that people a voice and to be heard and to be understood and to relate and to bring this emotional aspect into construction. Because for so long it's been removed and it's very just, this is the way it's going to happen and so be it and sorry that you're upset, but that's the way it is. That was what we wanted to disrupt.

And so when we talk about changing the language and how to make it positive, some might think that that is not needed, but when you're disrupting an industry, that's been the same for a hundred years. It is needed.

Yeah,

Because we are emotional beings. It doesn't have to be business and personal. We are all human beings. So just relate, just be the person that they need you to be in that moment. And we have seen time and time again, when we do change that behavior and that language, how many times are our projects turn out successful and they call us back for another remodel or they send us that referral. I mean, that's literally how we've been so successful. It’s because we decided to change it.

It's important to acknowledge what's there. And it meaning that emotions are all in the room, they're all flying around. And if you don't acknowledge them, then I feel like it's, it turns into this hurricane of emotions much later because you're just continuously not acknowledging them. So you might as well talk about them because they're in the room.

Right.

Yeah. And the construction industry as a whole has not had the best reputation. So why shouldn't it evolve and modernize and why can't we, you know, bring these different sorts of qualities to it that do make people feel more comfortable. And I think that's really important.

Yeah, it is.

It really is. Cause construction doesn't have to be everything that historically it's been known for.

Right.

Which is why we push the envelope every day. And rethinking what, what can it look like. It doesn't have to be this and the epiphany that we had years ago that construction doesn't have to be stressful for anyone involved. It doesn't have to be. It's literally a mindset. And even though things come up, it doesn't have to be stressful. That's a choice. And we never saw it that way. We operated in adrenaline and chaos and stress because that's how everybody else did. Oh, it was so. It was a lot. I blame any wrinkles I have on that.

Oh for sure. And then like 10 years I've lost off my life. We were completely, we were two completely different people.

Right. I'm like, I don't know why the government doesn't let us write off like, botox and self care things. Clearly the job has caused. And even.

It’s the government’s fault.

It's for sure. And even outfits you can't expense like your work outfit.

I really wish you could. I don't understand why you can't.

Right.

Well, people.

Might go up in yoga pants.

Exactly.

I have to wear pants.

Yeah. I mean, this is fair. Steel toed boots, obviously that's expense because OSHA says it is, but everything else, we need to get OSHA to say everything else means to be expensed.

It’s OSHA’s fault.

OSHA. You listened to her?

Okay. Yeah.

Ring ring. We're calling.

I have another question. What else do you think makes a good project manager?

I think organizational skills. Oh, I don't know. I was saying somebody who's very task-oriented. I love writing down lists. It's my favorite thing to do. And I love checking things off and putting that line through it. Like it's, double done.

The ink on the paper?

Yes. Yeah, I’m the ink on the paper type of organizer.

Okay. So for, if someone who's interested to get into project management, you would say organization and being task oriented, focusing on the task at hand is important?

Yes, but organizing more so in the way of like, calendar items. Calendars are very, very important when you're a project manager as our budgets. So probably some math skills. It would be good as well. Yeah.

Yes, please.

Yes. We learned that the hard way. A.KA. I’m not good at math.

Well, you made it this far.

I made it.

Once you learn it, you're good at it.

Right.

It just isn't like a natural thing for you.

Right.

And it can be learned and worked on.

That’s right.

Look at Michelle.

On this topic. So we talk about what project managers need. What would you say clients need going into to have a successful renovation?

A very detailed and mapped out plan. I would say a lot of contractors just sort of, we come up with a base plan, but it's not a fully, you know, plan that you can implement based off of just solely that plan. But I think that is really important.

For clients?

For clients, yeah. To have that plan, have everything mapped out. There are obviously, our company is not like this, but a lot of folks so just come to Simply Home.

Okay.

Just come to Simply Home.

That's what they need to know.

Wait. Can we pause the record and you say this again?

I’ll say it again. Just come to Simply Home.

Got it. You're not being paid for that.

It’s not a paid sponsorship. But also yeah. Detailed plan and as hard as it is, is why you should come to Simply Home, somebody that's reputable, do not go for the cheapest contractor. In any universe just don't do that.

Kristine, why?

It will cost more. Because you will end up, I can't tell you how many homes I went into and I wasn't sales that had already been already done. And it was failing either the bathroom, the electrical. You know and especially in a bathroom, if the waterproofing isn't done correctly, you can't see it. You can't see beyond the walls. But it will surely make it's, it's, you know, self known in a year or so. When now you have tiles falling off the wall and you need to pay all over again for it to be redone correctly.

Nightmare.

I full-heartedly stand by what Kristine said. Hear that. It seems simple. But it is, it's not when you do it right.

Yes. It's definitely worth the investment. It's your home.

For sure.

Typically it's, you know, folks largest sort of, how do you call it.

Investment?

Yes, ma'am. Investment. Typically your largest piece of investment. You know, the largest investment that you have and so paying somebody to do it correctly can save you.

Oh my gosh. Yes. Yes.

Yeah. It's worth it. One hundred percent. Yeah.

Yeah. It's worth it, our tagline.

It's worth it. Should we go to fun questions?

Yeah, let’s do it.

Okay. Number one, what is the best kept secret of Austin, Texas?

Oh, my gosh. I don't know if it's well kept. It's my favorite thing.

Oh.

Since I'm from Arizona. It’s the lake life. Yeah. It's like a free day. You don't have to, you know, you bring a couple of drinks, some sandwiches. We can hang out and the kids have fun. You have fun. And it's just, it's the best. I love the lake life.

That is true.

We are spoiled with having the lake life here, for sure.

Coming from a desert. That's my favorite part.

Oh right. Now it makes sense. What is a hidden talent of yours?

I am a really, I was going to say a really good show for, for my children. That is, I am top notch. I have snacks for everything. But more personally, I would say I'm a good cook and people don't usually.

Nice. Yeah.

So what do you cook? What's your favorite?

Everything.

Oh, everything.

But like, I would say I'm a better cook, but I enjoyed baking more. Like cookies and cheesecake.

I love it. I didn't know that about you.

Yeah. I hadn't either.

Out of all the office supplies, what would be your favorite item?

Oh, just a notepad and a pen. My list. I have to have my list. I can get rid of everything as long as I have my trusty little list, I am set.

Get rid of it. Notepad, got to have it.

Yeah.

Do you ever put something on your list just so you could cross it off?

All the time.

Same.

Yeah.

Yeah.

At the beginning of every week on Mondays, I read through my list. And then I'll cross off again. That's my favorite day of the week.

Yes.

You’re like, look at everything I did.

Yeah.

You're thinking, I was so productive.

I just did my laundry. So I'm going to put it on the list and then cross it off.

Yeah.

Because you did do it.

I did.

It was on my to-do list.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I need my other brain to see that I did it.

Yeah.

It's part of the success. Okay, what is something positive in the media that you’ve seen lately?

I would say only watch the positive media. I try not to watch too much of the other stuff. But just people being kind to each other. I think I did see recently, actually, you know what, like the baby stuff. Baby videos are my favorite, I would say.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, so that wraps up episode 20 with Kristine. Thank you Kristine for being with us today.

Absolutely. It was so much fun.

And sharing all your wisdom.

And any client that comes to work with us gets your negotiation skills firsthand.

Fun for them.

Yes.

So fun for them. You’re welcome. Everyone loves Kristine. And thanks so much for being with us today and we'll see you all next time.

Ta-ta.

Bye.